RAY MCGOVERN: I'm Ray McGovern, a 27-year veteran of the Central Intelligence Agency and co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity. (Light laughter.) I would like to compliment you on your observation that lies are fundamentally destructive of the trust that government needs to govern. A colleague of mine, Paul Pillar, who is the top agency analyst on the Middle East and on counterterrorism accused you and your colleagues of an organized campaign of manipulation, quote, "I suppose by some definition" --
SEC. RUMSFELD: Could you get to your question, please?
MR. MCGOVERN: -- that's been called a lie.
Atlanta, September 27th, 2002, Donald Rumsfeld said, and I quote, "There is bullet-proof evidence of links between al Qaeda and the government of President Saddam
Hussein."
Was that a lie, Mr. Rumsfeld, or was that manufactured somewhere else, because all of my CIA colleagues disputed that and so did the 9/11 commission. And so I would like to ask you to be up front with the American people. Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary and that has caused these kinds of casualties?
AUDIENCE: (Booing.)
MR. MCGOVERN: Why?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then -- (applause). Colin Powell didn't lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed was accurate, and he presented that to the United Nations. The president spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence people, and he went to the American people and made a presentation. I'm not in the intelligence business. They gave the world their honest opinions. It appears that there were not weapons of mass destruction there.
MR. MCGOVERN: You said you knew where they were.
SEC. RUMSFELD: I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were, and we were --
MR. MCGOVERN: You said -- you said you knew where they were near Tikrit, near Baghdad and northeast, south and west of there. Those are your words.
SEC. RUMSFELD: My words -- my words were that -- no, no, no. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Let him stay one second -- just a second. (Referring to security removing Ray McGovern from the press conference.)
MR. MCGOVERN: This is America, huh?
Q Yeah. (Applause.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: You're getting plenty of play, sir. (Laughter.)
MR. MCGOVERN: I'd just like an honest answer.
SEC. RUMSFELD: I'm giving it to you.
MR. MCGOVERN: We're talking about lies and your allegation that there was bullet-proof evidence of ties between al Qaeda and Iraq. Was that a lie or were you
misled?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Zarqawi was in Baghdad during the prewar period. That is a
fact.
MR. MCGOVERN: Zarqawi -- he was in the north of Iraq in a place where Saddam Hussein had no rule. That's where he was.
SEC. RUMSFELD: He was also -- he was also in Baghdad.
MR. MCGOVERN: Yeah, when he needed to go to the hospital.
Come on, these people aren't idiots, they know the story.
SEC. RUMSFELD: You are -- let me -- let me give you an example. It's easy for you to make a charge. But why do you think that the men and women in uniform, every day when they came out of Kuwait and went into Iraq, put on chemical weapon protective suits? Because they liked the style? (Laughter.) They honestly believed that there were chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein had used chemical weapons on his own people previously; he'd used them on his neighbor, the Iranians. And they believed he had those weapons. We believed he had those weapons.
MR. MCGOVERN: That's what we call a non sequitur. It doesn't matter what the troops believe --
MR. WHITE: I -- I think -- I think --
MR. MCGOVERN: -- it matters what you believe.
MR. WHITE: I think, Mr. Secretary, the debate is over. We have other questions, as a courtesy to the audience. (Applause.)
MR. MCGOVERN: Okay.
McGovern wasn't the only nutcase. He was just the most publicized of three nutjobs. The first:
GLORIA TATUM: (I/We ?) will not keep silent. This man deserves to be in prison for war crimes!
AUDIENCE: (Booing.)
MS. TATUM: (Off mike.)
AUDIENCE: (Booing.)
MS. TATUM: (Off mike) -- illegal war in Iraq! (Off mike) -- a nuclear war in Iran! You deserve to be in prison!
AUDIENCE: (Booing.)
MS. TATUM: And the world can't wait! We -- (off mike)!
Q Throw her out~!
MS. TATUM: (Off mike) --
Q I love you.
SEC. RUMSFELD: (Laughs, applause, cheers.) (Continued applause.)
Good for you, Sergeant York. (Laughter, applause.)
MR. YORK (?): (Off mike.) (Laughter.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: I think we'll count her as undecided. (Laughter.)
The second, briefly:
MS. ROBERTS: (Shouting) Why should the Americans --
AUDIENCE: Oh! Come on! (Boos.)
MS. ROBERTS: -- (inaudible).
SEC. RUMSFELD: You know, that charge is frequently leveled against the president for one reason or another, and it is so wrong, and so unfair, and so destructive of a free system where people need to trust each other and government. And the idea that people in government are lying about something is fundamentally destructive of that trust and, at bedrock, untrue.
And number three:
HECKLER: How can you sit here and listen to this war criminal?
AUDIENCE: Oh! No!
HECKLER: You are a serial killer!
AUDIENCE MEMBERS: Sit down! Sit down!
HECKLER: This man needs to be impeached, along with George Bush. How can you sit here smiling and listen to this criminal?
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Booo!
AUDIENCE MEMBER: Get out of here!
HECKLER: You're a war criminal, Mr. Rumsfeld!
(Pause while heckler is removed by security.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: Like Peter said, just a few of his close, personal friends! (Laughter, applause.)
MR. WHITE: But, Mr. Secretary, he came from Chicago. (Laughter.)
SEC. RUMSFELD: Well -- (chuckles.)
Ah, dissent! What must it be like to actually believe you are bravely speaking truth to power when all you are doing is being rude? There is nothing brave about spouting even nonsense to American officials. Nothing much will happen to those nutcases. They will gain some fame. Heck, an actor expressing support for the war will suffer more in Hollywood than these McGovernites will suffer for their little stunt.
Rumsfeld, by contrast, actually took the time to answer their demented rants.
I have nothing but contempt for the protesters. I respect Rumsfeld's patience to respect even crazy dissent.
